Podcast: Jack Randall | Wildlife Filmmaker, global adventurer, conservationist
In this episode we’re speaking to a rising star in conservation, Jack Randall. Jack is a global adventurer on a quest to find, study and promote the world’s most amazing animals. He began sharing his wildlife stories as a wildlife filmmaker and cameraman whilst traipsing through the jungles of the Amazon researching anacondas.
And since then he’s founded Made in the Wild and his team curate, research and filmmaking missions with a network of scientists globally.
In this podcast we talk about what it takes to become a wildlife filmmaker, and how to break into the sector. How do you plan, film and fund a wildlife film? We also discuss his passion for research missions, and how people can get involved through their exciting GO WILD initiative. But one thing is clear, Jack is going places and he’s full of energy, drive and impact. Enjoy…
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JACK: My name’s Jack Randall, I’m a wildlife filmmaker, a wildlife presenter and I also founded Made in the Wild, which we produce exciting wildlife content for younger audiences, and our mission really is to get spotlight animal diversity, so show all the amazing animals that are out there and how they’ve evolved to live in particular a habitat, so if we could find as many animals as possible and show them off, that’s our mission.
We’re conservationists as well, we make films that try and show off some conservation issues without getting too political, but, you know, we made a film about Cecil the lion’s pride and what happened after Cecil was killed. I started my career with a conservation film, so I would say I came from a conservation angle wanting to be a conservationist and trying to save the world, really. I mean, as you do when you leave university and you have those kind of aspirations to do big things. I left having done biology and I went straight to Australia with a friend of mine with a camera to make a film about a mining company in a very remote part of Australia in the Cape York peninsula and they were mining for bauxite.
What I thought was gonna be a two-month little project about a bauxite mine ended up being a year’s worth of filming and then another three years of trying to edit and self-fund that project, to finally finishing it and then not actually being able to publish it, because it was quite controversial and it didn’t follow some of the protocol that you’re meant to do as a wildlife filmmaker getting release forms, location releases so I spent four years learning it a hard way, and also having self-invested everything I had and all my energy into a conservation film. So it was back to the drawing board after that.
NICK: It sounds like you learnt a lot of lessons in the early days, which you can kind of be using to your best advantage now. Let’s talk briefly then about your career so far. We’ll talk about Made in the Wild and what you’re doing at the moment a little bit later, but replaying things. You talked about you did a degree and then went off and did this film, just, you know, give us a bit of a kind of potted history of your career so far.
JACK: I’ve always wanted to be working with animals. Before, at school, I was always watching TV, watching all of the wildlife presenters, e.g. Steve Irwin and every other exciting wildlife programme there was. I even remember, even when I was like eight years old, watching this guy walking barefoot through the anaconda Llanos, or the Llanos in Venezuela, searching for anacondas barefoot. That kind of work excited me, having grown up in England. So I always loved animals and I knew that I wanted to go down that path, but I didn’t know how to do it. I ended up obviously doing biology through school, and then ended up working doing a gap year and then just some volunteering projects and then went to university and I studied biological sciences. And at that point I knew that I just needed to learn as much as I could. Studying biological sciences in England, I didn’t get the fieldwork that I wanted abroad so I kind of grappled to try and find a project that I could do within my dissertation over in Africa.
NICK: Tell me about that, yeah, because obviously there’s a lot of students listen to this podcast to know they’re getting experience out in the field, it’s really important. What was your process of finding a project and connecting to it and getting involved?
JACK: It was an interesting one. So there was a list of supervisors. There was a few things really, I’d done one project before with a group which was a bit more tourism related in Africa and I’d managed to see the big five, and it was in South Africa but it wasn’t necessarily research related and I didn’t do my research project. I actually did it in my first year at university. My second year at university, everybody had to collect data to write their own dissertation undergrad project and we were given a list of supervisors that we could contact within the university network that we could speak to and they would supervise you collecting the data, but generally that would be lab-based, it might have been in Wytham Woods on badgers, which sounded really, really cool although that was very, very hard to even get a supervisor in Wytham Woods, it… just getting out into the woods was a tricky situation because everybody wanted that supervisor.
But I specifically knew that I wanted to do something in Africa and I went down the list and I found one guy, a guy called Dr Greg Rasmussen, he had a base in Africa researching painted dogs and I just assumed that he’s probably had about a million requests asking him to be supervisor. At this point I’m desperate because I’ve gone through every other avenue, you know, just finding an academic supervisor that was anything to do with animals, and particularly he had one in Africa, there’s no way I’d be able to get him as an academic supervisor. But I just put in my email with capital letters, can I come to Africa? Like pretty blunt, and he just replied, yup. And that’s how I kind of went so I think sometimes you just have to just go for it.
And that was my process, I collected my data in Zimbabwe on the impact of elephants on the ecosystem. So how their population has increased because of water holes in the area and what is the impact of the reduced vegetation, but also how leaves are producing more tannin, which is reducing the amount of actual energy that’s useful for a herbivore, and what’s the impact through the ecosystem? So it was really, really interesting, but working in the bush, it was just a dream come true, collecting data on elephants in Zimbabwe.
NICK: During your degree and as you were kind of coming out of your degree, what sort of role would you seek to secure, you know, what was your ideal job at that moment?
JACK: My ideal job, as I said, I loved wildlife TV, I really aspired to make wildlife TV that could inspire younger audiences, like I was. It’s funny that you remember a few things when you’re very young, and as I said, the Venezuelan biologist going through the Llanos catching anacondas, so I knew that I wanted to do something that would inspire younger people and it got to me to where I was. I knew that I wanted to make a film. I didn’t know how I was gonna do it, but I wanted to do it. And there’s so many people that want to get in that line of work.
And I did get in touch with the BBC, got in touch with ITV, all the various routes that you can kind of imagine trying to get a wildlife TV job, be it a researcher, applying for a job at ITV where I’d be looking through all the footage in their archive and I had the job interview and part of the job interview was to go through the footage, and we had to edit out five-second clips that was useful which they would then put into their library on their website. I did good on the general test that they gave you, ok, what animal species is this, what animal species is this? But the editing part of it, they gave you half an hour and you had, basically you had to find as many clips as possible within that half an hour. I had no idea how to edit at all. Absolutely zero idea.
So I failed that miserably, that was probably my best chance of getting a proper job at that time. I couldn’t get a job in wildlife in TV in England. I kind of exhausted all routes I could possibly think of. So I thought, well I’ll just make a film myself. So I took my friend Mark, who I knew from when I was younger, and he has a camera and he’s an aspiring wildlife filmmaker, or he was, now he is, but not necessarily wildlife, he’d never camped out in his life. Maybe in his back garden in Surrey, but definitely not in the bush. So we went on the plain, we went out to Australia and made a film for a whole… well, filming for a year in the bush in outback Aus up in Cape York peninsula is very, extremely remote. We were living in swags every day eating pasta, self-funded the whole thing and we had no idea necessarily what we were even filming but we just filmed everything. And it was an amazing experience.
So we came back after a year having filmed all this footage, we had about 160 hours of footage to go through, and in those days it was tapes, so we had 160 different one-hour tapes which we had to log through and I remember going through eve… literally transcribing every single interview I’d had, or every single bit of footage, what animal is what, and then started the process of editing it. And it was a long period of editing, because I could make a million different stories out of what we got. So at this point, I had to find a job. I came back to England, I got a job. What I thought was going to be a three-month job to fund my… the editing process, to finish the editing, ended up being funding my editing process for the next three years because it took me three years to edit it. And also going back to Australia to pick up extra footage as well. We ended up with an amazing film, but it could never be shown, which I mentioned earlier.
So not only as I mentioned that I went to ITV, that first job, and I didn’t manage to get it, I didn’t know how to edit, but over those three years, I now know how to edit, I can edit, you know, with my eyes closed. Even though I wouldn’t call myself an editor. And I also know how to operate a camera, I also know how to interview, I understand the whole wildlife filmmaking process. So I think these days, if you want to be an aspiring wildlife filmmaker at whatever angle you want to be, a producer, a researcher, a director, cameraman or presenter, I would recommend that you know every single bit of that process. It makes things a lot easier, because you know what everybody’s job is. And the only way of doing that really is doing it for yourself.
NICK: Nowadays obviously people have fairly easy access to really high-quality recording devices, even smart phones nowadays produce really quality production results within a day and you can have access to audiences on places like YouTube fairly readily and grow an audience there. So it feels like the entry requirements, if you like, are easier than ever before. Would you say it was easy to get into wildlife filmmaking? Or is it still a really competitive space?
JACK: It’s definitely easy to get into it if you want to make a wildlife film as you say, it’s extremely cheap to buy a camera, everybody’s actually got a camera if you’ve got an iPhone. It depends on what type of wildlife film you’re looking to make. That even some of the blue-chip looking films, you could still buy a good SLR camera with a decent long lens and wait in an area for a year observing animals and make a decent film out of it and be able to publish it and put it on YouTube. There’s obviously the big TV commissions and that is obviously very competitive and there’s few jobs in that. But it doesn’t mean that if you want to be in blue-chip TV, wildlife TV, wildlife filmmaking it’s a competitive world but you certainly can make your own films.
The only way really to prove to that side of the industry that you’re the right person is by doing it yourself and/or finding a mentor in that industry, or in that part of the TV wildlife filmmaking industry, and find that mentor. Made in the Wild, the company that I created or founded a couple of years ago, was based on the fact that actually you can make wildlife films quite easily, and so we’ve been going around for the past couple of years making several short films, wildlife stories, on a budget. Doing that with… working with researchers and with animals that we know we can get easily and they tend to be reptiles and invertebrates, smaller animals and not the elusive animals, although having said that I did make a series about Cecil the lion’s pride, and the whole series was to try and find Cecil the lion’s pride, so if we hadn’t found the pride, we actually wouldn’t have had anything.
So sometimes you have to take a bit of a risk. I don’t know if I managed to answer that question really. Yes it is competitive, particularly in the natural history unit, some of the higher budget stuff, but what I’m creating, you know, you can create yourself and/or you could even work with us. We hire lots and lots of young filmmakers to help, you know, we only hire young wildlife filmmaker, they haven’t got really any credits on their books, editors, producers. I’m hoping to be able to expand that, depending on how business goes, but we’re about creating wildlife content and we really want to excite younger people about wildlife. I’d say there definitely are jobs out there. But you’ve got to prove, I mean if we were looking at somebody that was a wildlife filmmaker and wanted to come out with us and film, we might have five different CVs and the one that gets chosen will be somebody who’s gone out and done it for themselves and really proven that they really care, they really care about it and care about wildlife, and care about their particular job. You do need to know everything. You need to understand all the editing process but it does also help when you know what part of the wildlife filmmaking process you want to specialise in, even though you may not have done that already. But if you know, it’s a bit more simple.
NICK: So explore the different options, having a good overview of the different parts of that process and getting stuck in and creating for yourself, it’s gonna kind of get you on that journey and you can create wildlife films relatively easily, I’m not saying it’s easy but more easily than in the past and promote them. What about the funding options? Obviously it’s, you know, if you can make and promote and publish, how do you go about and what are the options for getting something funded? You’ve done three series so far, you’ve got Expedition Anaconda, Cecil’s Legacy and Venom Australia, how have you gone about seeking funding for those?
JACK: Ok, so it’s really interesting, I’ve been thinking about this recently and this is particularly in the short format as how we’re funding at the moment. So I’ll go through how it’s happened. The first one, the four-year film, that was self-funded. Then the second one after that, I had to go back to the drawing board, as I say, I had to… I didn’t want to stop there. I came up with a project which I knew would gain as much attention as possible. I knew I couldn’t self-fund this, I had no more money left. So I came up with a project which I knew it sounded cool, and also that I love, because I love anacondas as I mentioned. So I found a story, I was like reading a story and it just kind of happened to me that this dam that was being built in Brazil, the Belo Monte Dam, having a huge impact on the environment, flooding thousands of hectares of land around the vicinity of the dam and not only that, displacing a lot of local people. But during the construction of that, there was a big digger pulling out a massive anaconda, I saw a picture of it and I just thought, wow. Ok, well not only that, that’s just incredible, and I just made a film about mining so I kind of underst… the whole development in rural areas was interesting to me.
The fact that there’s this digger, the Belo Monte Dam, one of the most environmentally destructive kind of development projects in the world, pulling out an anaconda which I absolutely love, and it looked bigger than any snake that I’d ever seen in my life, and there was all these questions whether is that snake, is it the biggest snake that’s ever been found? How big do anacondas really get? You know, all these questions and just think, wow ok, I’ve got to make a film about this.
NICK: Which obviously linked right back to your early childhood when you saw that person walking through the Amazon barefoot.
JACK: Exactly, exactly. And this is my chance and I have to do this. I have to go and find out, you know, I have to find these anacondas. That process that I started drawing a project plan, you know, where I would need to go, what Belo Monte Dam was, what the research question would be, could there be a sub-species of anaconda that’s bigger than others, that’s only found in this area, I did all this and I found out all the different researchers that were studying anacondas, where they were, how long it would take to film if I were to film this project, how I would even access that area, and I came up with really not a massively long project plan, but I’d say a six-page project plan that detailed everything, and all the camera equipment that I would need to take out there, who would be filming and who would be helping, I got in touch with a local fixer.
It had everything planned in advance. But then I need to find the money. But I took the project plan to a digital media company and so they helped with that funding, allowing me to go out there. And I had a generally a synopsis which they probably really only read the synopsis, to be honest, a massive anaconda, a guy wanted to go and find it. So they funded that part of the process, and then took the footage and edited up short-form digital content which went out on their channels. But funnily enough, what we created there, or what I created, was a research project. I connected up the top researchers in the anaconda world, and the barefoot anaconda man, who I was talking about and who I was watching and didn’t even know the name, I ended up contacting, Jesus Rivas. And he said, yeah maybe, maybe it could be this new sub-species, could be a new species, there are definitely new species out there of anacondas to be found. I said, I want to go to the Belo Monte, the area of the Belo Monte Dam to find one.
I said, look I’m gonna go there and I’ve just spoken to the local taxonomist there, Emile Hernandez, and he’s gonna be part of our team and we’re gonna be going looking for the anacondas. But if we come across one, what kind of data would you want? He said, look you need to get some DNA off any anaconda you find, I want to put it in my dataset. So I kind of went out there with a research, it was a data building research project and it was part of Jesus Rivas’s research, and Emile was keen to collaborate with Jesus and it all came together. And we filmed the whole thing, Mark who filmed my first film, came out as well and it all came together over four weeks. We got some amazing footage and I ended up back in Venezuela for the last few days having caught a few anacondas, not as many as I’d hoped because I hadn’t done my research perfectly, because I’d gone out at a time when actually it’s quite difficult to find anacondas in the Brazilian rainforest when there’s lots of rain, and they tend to find them on the sides of banks when they’re basking, but when there’s too much rain, there aren’t any banks and there’s only just the trees and the branches.
So you might find them on the branches but it’s much harder, they tend to be just underwater at that point. It was tricky to find the anacondas but I went down with the boat, local people and employed lots of local guides and we… the whole part of this river, everybody knew that I was looking for this anaconda. We caught a few anacondas, we got the data, the DNA and I gave it to Jesus, and we made some amazing little films. And then it was back to the drawing board again, because I’d finished that and it had gone well, but I wanted to keep the momentum going. As I finished that film and we were publishing it, online as well, so it was a quick turnaround, I designed another project. The next project was around Cecil the lion. When I was at university, wildlife conservation research unit were tracking Cecil the lion and so I’d always been interested in that story because I just had that connection to it, and I thought I could make a film about Cecil’s pride and his legacy, what’s happened after Cecil the lion’s been killed. Not only for the lions themselves but also for the conservation of lions.
NICK: And for those who don’t know, Cecil was the really high-profile male lion that was shot, right, a few years ago by a dentist, is that right, from the US? That hit the world’s press.
JACK: Yeah, exactly. Choosing stories as well that have… that could get press attention was something in my mind. I knew, you know, it helps getting some funding in itself but yeah, Cecil the lion was the lion that got killed, yeah, by a dentist, trophy hunter and it was highly controversial because Cecil was the dominant male of a pride in the perfect area of Hwange National Park in Zimbabwe. He was a royal lion, the head lion of the pride which lived in the best real estate in Hwange National Park where there’s so much game. To be that lion you have to be big, you have to be strong and really powerful, and so all the tourists knew that lion, that it was the lion that you went out to take a picture of.
But that lion ended up being shot by a trophy hunter, it went kind of viral all around the world. So I wanted to make a story that was really a positive. At this point after making my first film, it kind of was more of an expose, I wanted now to make films that were positive even though they might have started off on a bad angle, or a kind of an issue, but making positive stories. Though I wanted to find out the positive angles out of after Cecil had died, you know, how had that impacted lion conservation in that area? And actually it had a positive effect, there’s lots of amazing initiatives going on for avoiding conflict between lions and people. Generally, you know, the main risk for lions at the moment, particularly in Zimbabwe, is getting caught in snares and also getting killed by people because they’re eating cattle, and so people don’t like them because they’re eating their livelihoods. So there’s a lot of initiatives trying to avoid that conflict by pushing them away from where local people live and also anti-poaching units getting rid of the snares.
NICK: What seems to be coming through from this then, just listening to your career story as to where you are now, is kind of there’s three things, I think, that I’m hearing. One is like obviously wildlife conservation and a passion for wildlife, conserving it. One is, I was gonna say capturing but that’s the wrong word but certainly, you know, for the wildlife filmmaking, the media aspect of it, promoting that to the world and showcasing the amazing wonder and beauty that’s out there. And then the third strand seems to be research. If you do like a Venn diagram of Jack Randall, it’s very much conservation, wildlife filmmaking, research and where those three bits kind of meet to kind of coalesce, that’s the area you’re working in and carving out a niche for yourself. And obviously, you know, thinking about Made in the Wild, you’re doing more kind of research missions now, is that right? So you’re looking to help budding wildlife conservationists to actually get some on-the-ground experience as well.
JACK: Yeah, you’re exactly right, I mean, about the Venn diagram, haven’t drawn it up but I’ve had it in my mind exactly like that as well. I cross over that kind of the medium of the wildlife filmmaker, the research element and the conservation and they do cross over. Sometimes it’s more on the research side, sometimes it’s more on the conservation side and sometimes more on the filmmaking side. And sometimes it does the opposite of what you expect, so the Cecil the lion project, I funded that with an academic grant but it was really a wildlife filmmaking project. The funding source was actually an academic grant.
NICK: And yet something as academics need to do is actually promote their work, and wildlife filmmaking’s promotion nowadays. There’s no point in doing something you don’t tell people about it. So there is a need for more people to be doing the sorts of things you’re doing.
JACK: Exactly. I would say, you know, it really is. I mean, being a scientist is about being communicator and it’s about being a publisher and when you’re publishing a scientific paper, you want as many eyeballs in your academic audience as possible. But also you want the general public to engage with your work as well. So that’s communicating in a different way. It’s so important, you might do it by film or writing or blogs, photos, you know. It depends on your project.
NICK: I’d like to hear a little bit more about these research missions as well. This is something that you’re starting really this year, and you have opportunities for people to really get involved in Made in the Wild on, you’re calling it the GO WILD research missions, is that right? Tell us a little bit about them.
JACK: Yeah. I want to provide opportunities for a few very, very dedicated students to have the opportunities that I had as I was building my career and that meant being able to provide an opportunity for people to go out into Africa or wherever it is and do fieldwork on a real research project. So we started these research missions and it’s starting with just students, the opportunities to be able to collect data and learn how to be a field biologist, with real researchers on the ground on real projects.
And the best place to start that was where I did my undergrad’s research project in Zimbabwe with my old supervisor, Greg Rasmussen. I’ve spent ten years now working in the various areas we talked about, research, conservation, media and Greg really is the best field biologist I’ve ever met and the funniest field biologist, he’s got the best stories and he knows what it’s like being in the bush. And he’s a proper scientist as well. And so I went back out to Zimbabwe in December, spent like a month with Greg to design a four-week field course, how to be a field biologist and going through all the, each week designed to knock on to the next part of the learning process, so really for dedicated students who tend to… it’ll be undergrads in the zoology, biology fields and they really want that extra push for their CV, really.
NICK: What will people learn and do across those four weeks, just paint a little bit of a picture about what they would get involved with?
JACK: The first week is learning African ecology and the dataset that you can build up. You know, building a picture of the world around you when you’re at the field base, where you are, the different animals and how the ecosystem is made up. And also not only that, the local areas and how it interacts with Hwange National Park, which National Park, and the different conflicts that they might have with wildlife. So you’re really building a picture of the ecosystem around you and the African ecology for the first week.
The second week is beginning to get out into the field and collecting the datasets that you’ve decided upon the first week, and that might be camera trapping, soil percolation tests, IDing various animals that you’ll be seeing, either the big game but also reptiles, invertebrates and also the plants and trees. Then the third week, and this is really, really, really important – it’s understanding that conservation and research in these areas, it needs to benefit the local people so, and Greg is very much a believer of that, his right-hand tracker is a local, everybody’s local, he has local graduate students who he mentors on the field base for free. So it’s designing a local conservation initiative.
And then the fourth week is what everybody really is gonna get their life dream kind of thing that would happen in the African bush, and it’s going out with Greg on an expedition and spending three nights out in swags out in the African bush and at the same time will be collecting the same datasets that you’ve been collecting in the second week, but out in the much more remote part of the bush.
NICK: It sounds really interesting, it sounds really fun as well. We’ll put some links in the podcast notes if you want to click off and find out a little bit more. And just sort of starting to kind of wrap the interview up really, I’d like to just sort of look forwards a little bit for you if you wouldn’t mind. You’ve done all sorts to date, you’ve talked about your degree and the wildlife filmmaking aspects, and now you’re doing research expeditions and training courses for people through Made in the Wild. Where, Jack, do you see yourself, let’s say five years from now? You know, what do you hope to have achieved or where do you hope to have got to by then? Have you got some clarity around that?
JACK: I do. I’d love to be at a stage where we have eight field bases, not only are we creating amazing wildlife content and showing that to everybody that might be interested in biodiversity, because we’re all about biodiversity, the main issue that I see, you know, the main thing that I’m really passionate about is biodiversity and the loss of biodiversity. So by showing off all the different animals and how they differ, like a Pokémon hunt, we want everybody to know what all the different creatures are and how special they are, and so I want to have eight field bases around the world where not only that we’re helping students to be able to become field biologists and design their own projects, either in wildlife filmmaking, conservation or research, but we’re also creating content and publishing that and building a bit of an audience around it. And who knows, a bit of a community. But I don’t know exactly where it’s gonna be in five years’ time, but I know that I’m gonna keep going. I’ve just been making a television series as well, so I’m hoping that that continues. That’s it, really.
NICK: That’s it, really. That sounds amazing! I’m so excited for you and you’re already kind of well on the way to that, to be honest, with one hub, you know, being set up in Zimbabwe and I’m sure others will follow so maybe we’ll check back in in five years’ time and see how it’s going. As a final question, it’s a big question really, a very open question – if I could make you like a global tsar for the day so you can make one change and this change would happen, what one thing would you like to change that would maybe make a big impact on the planet or wildlife, so one thing that you’d like to be able to click your fingers and just see would occur.
JACK: Let me have a think for two seconds.
NICK: Course you can.
JACK: It’s a very hard question, Nick.
NICK: It’s a tough one, it’s a really tough one. What’s your heart telling you?
JACK: What I’m seeing over the past ten years of having travelled and been working on my various projects, I have been seeing lots of change. And actually, drastic change with the Great Barrier Reef, you know, I’ve been diving ten years on the Great Barrier Reef, diving just recently onto the Great Barrier Reef it’s a different ecosystem. It’s totally… it’s completely changed. And that’s exactly the same as Cape York peninsula where I was making my first film and where there was all this development going on, we’re talking about a really, really pristine ecosystem that is now damaged, completely changed. What, the main thing that I would hope, and I’m also gonna be going to Sumatra soon and I know what I’m going to be seeing there with the palm oil, I would love for some of those ecosystems that are intact already just to remain like that, because there are very few places left in the world where there’s a natural ecosystem. So if we just leave it alone, we’ll be ok. So we need to be more sustainable with our development, be more sustainable with our farming and leave these special areas intact because I’m pretty sure that there’s areas that you can mine the same resource outside of those intact areas, the same thing for some farming areas, I just really wish there was a more sustainable way to be developing and feeding the world, but also providing everything that we all want without damaging those really precious parts of the world. And I can see the changes now is scary, I really hope it stops.
NICK: I’d vote for you, sounds good to me. It’s been really nice to chat, to get to know you a little bit better. Thanks so much Jack for hopping on the podcast and having this chat, it’s been really fun. If people want to find out a little bit more about you and Made in the Wild, and the research missions that are upcoming as well, how can people get involved?
JACK: We’re on social media, Instagram @MadeintheWild.TV, YouTube – YouTube is the key one right now, Made in the Wild on YouTube and we got a website, but otherwise I’m in charge of the Instagram accounts and stuff so you can message me if you’re really interested in anything. It was great to talk to you, Nick.
NICK: Fabulous, and we’ll put links in the show notes, yeah. Ok, thanks again Jack. Great to chat.
JACK: Thanks Nick, ciao.
NICK: Ok well I hope you enjoyed that everyone, if you did then please do hit that ‘subscribe’ button to get notified when new episodes are live and also give us a rating as it really helps us to get in front of more people. If you enjoy the interviews we’ve collated the best advice from over 400 professional conservationists into a free e-book, which you can download from the bottom of our website. And finally, if you’ve got any questions or suggestions for the podcast, please tweet them to @ConserveCareers, we’d love to hear from you. Ok, till next time guys, this is Nick signing out.