Podcast: Elliot Connor | Human Nature
Have you ever met someone and wondered in awe about how they have done so much in such a short space of time?
That’s a feeling I got when I first met Elliot Connor, who’s our guest on the podcast today. Elliot is a 17 year old Australian popular science writer, presenter, producer, and so many other things. He’s best known for founding the International Environmental NGO Human Nature Projects, which supports volunteers across 104 countries and established that within just the last 15 months alone.
Elliot’s life’s goal is to reframe our human relationship with the natural world and his work has been recognised with various honours and awards and accolades. I’m not going to list them here, there’s quite a few of them! \
During this podcast, we talk about Human Nature Projects, David Attenborough, how to succeed as an introvert in a movement like this, how to talk to Donald Trump about wildlife, and lots more besides. It’s a wide ranging fun and really inspiring chat. Enjoy!
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Audio Transcript
Elliot Connor
My name is Elliot Connor. I’m the founder and CEO of Human Nature Projects, a TEDx speaker, podcast host, wildlife photographer, filmmaker, author and animal rescuer.
Nick
And many other things, the list goes on. Yeah, an impressive list of achievements already at the delicate age of 17, turning 18 quite soon, too. So yeah, it’s really good to have you on the podcast. Thanks for joining us, Elliot. And I sort of said just, we’re just chatting just beforehand, it feels like almost like a rematch because you know, I always come on your podcast recently, we had such a good time I thought I’ve got to get you on, learn a little bit more about you and the things you’re involved in because you’re an impressive young man. So let’s dive in. And the first thing I’d really like to know more about really is what you just mentioned at the top there. You’re the CEO of Human Nature Projects, which is something which is supporting volunteers across over 100 countries globally already and to help conserve nature within those countries. I’ve got a brief overview, but I’m sure much of the audience would like to know, you know a lot about this as well. So in a nutshell, what is human nature projects?
Elliot Connor
Sure, Human Nature Projects acts as a community within conservation and as an entry point into environmental volunteering. The way it’s set up has proven really effective, especially in the scaling as mentioned over the past 15 odd months. But it’s designed to tailor the experience to the volunteer, and really support them with their skill set, their interests, how they’d like to change the world. So linking them up with the national team, in as you say, over a hundred countries and also connecting them up with international working groups, which aligned according to interests or skills. So that’s proven really effective. It means it’s quite decentralised so I don’t have to micromanage everything that’s going on. But it certainly helps with the organic growth, it certainly helps the volunteers to really get a lot out of it, through networking, through skills building through all these opportunities at which it encompasses and it has shown really effective in making a difference in enabling what essentially is a grassroots movement so environmentalism to scale globally as we’ve seen the world coming together COVID-19 some their barriers in the field has proven really resilient and been incredible. for me, as a journey as well.
Nick
Yeah I can’t believe in just 15 months, you know, you’ve already spread across and over 100 countries, that’s hugely impressive. Can you give me some just bring it to life a little bit, can you give me some examples of some of the projects on the ground or maybe in some individual volunteers that have, you know, engaged in the projects already and what the journey looks like at the local level, you know, give us some details of what it is like?
Elliot Connor
Sure, well, actually, just before hopping on this call today, I received a photo on WhatsApp. I get a few of these being naturalist, ecologist, for Human Nature Projects. But it was your classic. It was a silhouetted monkey photo, hundreds of meters up in a tree. So really poor image quality, absolute nightmare and I’d been asked to for an identification. So I sent this by our National Director in Uganda, his name is Ronald Kaboyay. And what they’ve been doing there and hence the reason for my getting this photo is they’ve just been given a land grant from the Kingdom of Uganda. So from big body, big institution, which borders on Lake Victoria as sizable area and they’ve just been planting several thousand trees over there. Uganda national team is doing really great work. And they’ve been doing lots of monitoring as well, hence the monkey photo. They’ve been doing monitoring for the great apes, forest elephants, giraffes, all of these species. So yes, really interesting things going on there. Another example, I like is Lesotho. So really great natural … called Justice Senkoto over there. And essentially, before Human Nature Projects came along, there were no organisations or government bodies or community groups, nothing happening in this environmental space. So Human Nature Projects sort of broke that ground, started this movement in the country, what, 12 months ago now. And yeah, since then, they’ve gained some proper momentum. They’ve gained government backing, started an office internship program, run major events on all the world days, you name it, with the local community hall in the capital. And they’ve been doing lots of programs with schools. So environmental education, some debating connecting students and educating the youth about environmental issues. So yeah, it really depends on the national team on the country and the people behind it. As I say, it’s very tailored to the people in the network. So they very much shape it. We have a national team in Morocco, that’s almost entirely composed of school teachers. So they’re really, really strongly focused on that. We’ve got a national team in Canada, which has a find youth focus. So they’ve been doing work with that demographic, specifically, but also working with industry. So, trying to promote sustainable practice. Here in Australia we ran a bushfire campaign. I did a bird watching competition last year. So all sorts of things going on but really exciting to see how it’s come.
Nick
It’s really exciting, yeah. And what do you provide the kind of the international level that these local groups benefit from? Why are they doing it as part of Human Nature Projects and not just on their own? Like, what’s the cement that sticking it all together?
Elliot Connor
That’s a good question and I think it’s a mixture of things. So firstly, Human Nature Projects is really powerful as a network. So I speak with all of the national directors themselves, every fortnight every two weeks. I will be doing so in two hours time. So it’s always a wonderful session. But that allows them to connect with other national teams doing similar things, lots and lots of insights shared, partnerships, drawn up, collaborations across multiple countries, some of these projects. So we had one with some of the chimpanzee programs in Central Africa, some of the national teams talking there. We’ve had once cross continent event. So between say, Oceania, between Africa, some of the Asian countries. That’s really interesting when that goes ahead. As I mentioned, there’s the international working groups as well. So occasionally, their projects will tie into the national teams work. We recently created an educational toolkit. So a collection of resources, which all of these national teams could use, but created through the help of the International Board through these working groups through widespread global collaborations, and really, really powerful resource that came out of that. So yeah, it’s various things, funding, knowledge, expertise, all of them come into it, and obviously a larger audience as well, because I think they really appreciate having people to share their work with, having that extra employee volunteers. Often, when a national team does start up in a country, they’ve already got a half a dozen volunteers, say, who have expressed interest in joining Human Nature Projects. So it definitely adds that catalyst as well, to start these movements.
Nick
Yeah and it sounds like a great model. Obviously, it’s a model that works locally led, grassroots, really flexible, sharing successes, finding the bright spots and allowing them to be replicated from one place to another, bringing like minded people together. It’s a great example of, you know, how these sorts of international networks can be formed and how people across it, you know, great diversity of backgrounds, you know, have so much in common when your passion is wildlife and seeking to conserve it. So if this is just 15 months of activity already, then I can’t wait to see what’s going to happen in the next, you know, 15 years or so. So, it’s really exciting. Why did you think it was needed? Like why did you establish in the first place? What was the gap you identified in the market if you like and allowed you to kind of create the program from the beginning?
Elliot Connor
I mean, the story behind Human Nature Projects, I came up with the idea, or at least the groundwork for it in January of last year. At the time, I was volunteering for about a month in a raptor and hedgehog rehabilitation centre in southern France. So really remote, near the Alps, really slow internet connection, no, nothing, no phone signal, no cable TV. Yeah, proper remote, freezing cold, dark nights. And I guess I spent some of the spare time I had there, very slowly researching the operations of about 200 major environmental NGOs. So in several years prior to that, I’ve been volunteering quite extensively, mostly locally, mostly in Australia, and finding that really, really challenging to gain those opportunities, to break into some of these older, more established networks often lots of bureaucracy. As you can imagine, as a young person, that was an obstacle. Australia’s also, decades behind everywhere else, as a conservation, not a great place to be starting with. So a variety of factors, which may have held me back. But what I found doing that research, both through organisations in Australia, and working internationally was that my experience, my findings, especially as a young person, but more broadly speaking, in the field, were quite common. So people were finding challenges through a knowledge gap, not knowing how to help out in environmentalism, and not feeling they have the time or the skills to contribute. So having various barriers, not knowing where to start, and many people nowadays are sensitised to the issues, it’s not a problem of awareness, per se, is problem of activating that concerned citizenship. So that’s the idea with which human nature projects was formed. Very much aligned from my own experiences thinking how I tell others like myself across all of these different countries.
Nick
Yeah, and it’s interesting. It’s funny you know, I’m sort of reflecting a little bit on David Attenborough, actually, you know, his career actually. And you know, you remind me of a very young David Attenborough so far. I wonder where with all the different strands, particularly your communications, your filmmaking, your global reach. I remember listening to an interview of David Attenborough actually, where he was described as the most well travelled person in all of human history ever. To which he agreed. Through his career, he travelled the globe more than anyone has ever done so and possibly may ever do so again, I guess. And what he’s done is he’s really kind of told, he’s laid the land, you know, for conservation. People are on the side, people get it, people love it, people care about it, the world over. But what’s needed now is more action, more activity, more movement. And it feels like that’s where you’re kind of taking the springboard off, as are many conservation is, you know, everywhere. It’s like, yeah, we want to help, how we help, what we do, let’s remove the barriers to allow people to kind of get into the movement more easily. And also, I guess, remove the kind of the elitist badge of I am a conservationist. Anyone can be a conservationist, right, you know, whether it’s small activities or big activities, whether it’s professional or volunteer, whatever. There’s something that everyone can do.
Elliot Connor
Yeah definitely, and even David Attenborough now has taken on to this more action oriented stuff. A life in our Planet, Our Planet Series, both highly, highly action oriented, proposing solutions to the issues, asking even the listeners to head over to websites, see what you can do. That’s where the intersection of wildlife film and conservation is very much drawing together, the two at a long, illustrious history together. But yeah really great example that you draw with Attenborough as well.
Nick
Yeah. And he’s an interesting one actually. Interesting to kind of hear your thoughts, too, because a lot of his public programs over the last, I guess, sort of 50-60 years or something like that, you know, through his very long career has been about selling and articulating the beauty of nature, you know, and inspiring people to know about it and to love it. And yes, he’s supported huge amounts of conservation charities, he does great work for Fauna and Flora International, along with a whole suite of other charities to get you know, more support into and funding into the movement. But publicly it feels like that, he’s only really used his platform, through TV and now Netflix and others, to actually encourage people to do something about it, perhaps over the last five, maybe ten years, something like that, you know, plastic pollution being a big example and you know, other things now. Has he left it a bit late do you think? Or has he done things? Is that right?
Elliot Connor
It’s a really difficult question to answer, you see, because, I mean, I like his recent documentaries, even those of course, he doesn’t have a big hand in them just doing the voiceover. But still, the framing is okay in my view. I actually find some of the more hard hitting ones quite hard to listen to. I do feel you need progression in terms of getting people to care about nature to connect with it, before they can take that next step find out the true extent of the damage we might be causing to it. I think what we’ve seen increasingly in the modern age is, perhaps with the more conventional media, with a newspaper, with online outlets, then we have seen a mass movement towards the more drastic side of communication, in terms of environmental issues, so sort of been dramatise off an out of proportion, which has led to people becoming desensitised. It’s got the opposite effect of what we’re trying to achieve. So it’s a very, very delicate balance you’re trying to walk. And you’re right. He has left it quite late to move into some of the more high sitting type programs. But I really, really respect him for what he’s done is an inspiring environmentalist. So starting this movement, getting others to put forward that other line of messaging. Secondly, through just connecting people across unprecedented scales to nature, because as we’re living in this urbanised world, 60% of us in cities… , then we are at a situation where many of us don’t get to experience nature in our everyday lives. I was saying before the show, I’m at in Kangaroo Valley. So out of Sydney at the moment, and really, really nice getaway, but rare opportunity. Very few people, even in Sydney would know a lot about nature there. Sydney has got incredible wildlife. But there’s this really large knowledge gap. There’s a gap in the accessibility of these natural spaces. So Sydney scrape guard, integrated national parks…, but still very, very few people use them. So what Attenborough is great at is being the very solid foundation for the environmental movement. I think everyone else works upon that.
Nick
That’s a great way of putting it. Yeah, I’ve never really quite thought about it so clearly. Yeah, I’d like to turn and talk a little bit about you actually. You and your career and I guess your life related to wildlife to date, which is already diverse and impressive. Where did your passion for nature start? Let’s go back to the beginning you know. Have you always had an interest in wildlife? Was there a moment when it was triggered? You know, what, where’s that come from?
Elliot Connor
Yeah, a bit of both I would say. So, I come from the British background. I come from South of England and I do believe that bird watching, the outdoors appreciation is much more part of the culture there. I think if I had been brought up here in Australia that would have been less of a thing for me. So coming from that family background certainly helped. Have been brought up, raised in that manner had, I guess, a smaller knowledge of nature and appreciation, thereof. For me, it really kicked off, as you say, maybe three, four years ago. So I actually started volunteering, as I mentioned, but with Birdlife Australia. So they have a Discovery Center in a local park in Sydney. That was the first volunteer placement I took up. But it was quite a shock, quite a wakeup call for me because I was the only volunteer this side of 70. So lots of old recent retired stereotypical bird watchers, twitches, running that centre and almost no visitors. So it basically showed some of the flaws in conservation here in Australia. But it did do a very good job of connecting me with some of the networks. Some of what was going on. I started bird banding, getting into the research and I do animal rescuing with birds as well. So those two networks I helped out with zoos, which is how many people get started, did lots of campaigning with grassroots organisations here in Sydney and then stepped on to the youth platform internationally for environmentalism. So got connected with the networks and eventually started Human Nature Projects as it’s all been a bit of a progression for me. But starting out essentially from where we all start off in the fields getting our foot stuck in that rabbit hole of a nature appreciation through bird watching for me, and actually spent quite a while with a fascination for insects. So I spent six months, just photographing all the insects I could find in my garden, great macro lens, I had sort of got all the nice close ups of them, posted them on a naturalist to get an identification, started learning about their life history raised many of them in a terrarium on my desk. So yeah, very much starting from the backgrounds of the naturalist, of the ecologists, and moving into some of the conservation work, which I now engage in.
Nick
If you met a young, aspiring conservation, say they are 12 or 13 years also not that, you know, rewinding yourself back, you know, three or four years now, or more than that, five, six years, what advice would you give them that’s going to help them to have such a productive teenage period if you like, you know, and to build a platform, like you said, you know for creating the sort of impact that you already are? Yeah, as you’re about to turn 18 what advice would you give to someone? Looking back at your own experience, what’s helped you to achieve what you already have achieved in such a short space of time?
Elliot Connor
Well, really, for me, it was about putting myself out there. So starting new things. I’m an introvert. I don’t naturally take perhaps to, especially some of the more public roles. I like leadership. That’s something I do enjoy. But in terms of public speaking, going to these international conferences, sharing my thoughts with media, podcasts, my own shows, well, it’s something I’ve had to learn. But all of the networks I’ve developed or the opportunities I’ve gained, have ultimately stemmed through some of these initiatives that I’ve set up. So one of the first things I did here in Sydney actually, very shortly after the Birdlife volunteering, was I ran a BioBlitz event in one of the local national parks. So a BioBlitz, if any of the listeners aren’t aware is basically a weekend event, where you gather together the local community, experts, amateurs, people with no experience whatsoever. You train them up, assist them in recording observations of as many species as they can in the area. That was great. It’s actually one of the most bio diverse places in Australia, wonderful, wonderful location to do it. But it also connected me up with many, many other actors in the space. I started doing more work in Ku-ring-gai National Park with the rangers there, camera trapping for bandicoots. I started working with other volunteer groups, so with Wilderness Society with the Nature Conservancy, all connections have stemmed out of that. So finding out the different stakeholders that I could reach out to, gathering the community there, meeting with them. I had one lovely, lovely woman who came up to me. Her husband unfortunately had passed away. Her husband was a curator at Taronga Zoo. So really large local zoo in Sydney, one of the best in the Southern Hemisphere. And he had recently passed away, but she passed on to me his entire collection of natural history books. So I’ve got a very large stack down in the basement, down in my lab, which I’ve been steadily making my way through reading, up skilling learning that way. So, that all came out of doing that. And through Human Nature Projects, I’ve got this global community, been able to speak at TEDx, the world biodiversity forum, go to South Korea, chat at Samsung, all these things. Spent six weeks over in South Africa this January, doing filmmaking. Because of Human Nature Projects, because there’s a CEO, they found me that way. So it all stems from putting yourself out there doing something thinking big, couldn’t have imagined where Human Nature Projects would be 15 months on, but that would be my main advice to give.
Nick
Yeah, that‘s huge advice, really valuable. Putting yourself out there and thinking big, I think really kind of summarises everything I’ve just heard from you, I think over the last 20 minutes or so. And I hadn’t appreciated that you describe yourself as an introvert because of all the people I’ve met I would put yourself on the other end of the spectrum of confidence and introvert extrovert are very different things you know, I appreciate that. But something you really do seem to have is real confidence in your own ability. A kind of fearlessness which I think comes with youth as well actually. You know, you’re not scared of thinking big, going big and therefore allowing things chance to succeed. Yeah, if there are people listening who are perhaps introvert, and perhaps don’t have that confidence, you know, how did you convince your mind to switch the table? How do you jump on a podcast like this when you don’t feel particularly extrovert a little tough? You know, that’s like that’s a skill. What drove you to kind of do that?
Elliot Connor
Yeah, mixture of things. So practice obviously is the main one. I’ve been lucky enough to come on a few dozen podcasts over the last few months. So that’s a new skill set for me. So that’s been great. And recklessness. I mentioned I did the TEDx event earlier this year. That was maybe the second third public speech I’ve ever given. Well, so completely, completely new format. But yeah, I’m someone who relishes in a challenge. That’s sort of how I’m wired. So just putting myself out there and going through these really big opportunities, was something that really fast tracked that learning curve for me. So the TEDx is a great example. Now, during COVID time especially, doing webinars, doing panel discussions, things like that, that’s a new skill set. But getting going on all these different formats, and learning how to run them, what has to be part of them, it’s all something you pick up gradually. But yeah, for me, it was very much speaking about myself, learning to do so you know, semi fluent manner, through coming on different shows different stages, doing that in all sorts of contexts. And wherever you can, try and fit it in. Pass it with a family member, if that’s convenient. For me, it’s … my audience. So that’s, yeah, whoever, whenever I used to lend speeches on my bus rides. So finding the time of the day, when you can pursue some of those bigger goals. Those bus rides were my big ideation setting the time aside to write, say, my bucket list to go for these big goals. And yeah, it’s granted me some incredible opportunities.
Nick
Yeah. And that links quite nicely, I think into my next question, actually, which is, so you’re 17, you’re going to turn 18 in nine days time. So you’re just about to kind of formally enter adulthood, if you like, if we’re defining that as 18. Looking forward and thinking big, and in terms of your ideation and bucket list, and that sort of stuff. What would you like to achieve during your adult career? Have you got ideas and aspirations already? Share your thoughts as they are right now?
Elliot Connor
Sure, yeah. I mean, as you say, I’ll be 18 in just over a week. It’s a bit of a relief, honestly. But yeah, so I finished school a month later, take a gap year after that unusual decision during COVID times. I’d like to pursue the conservation sector, future employment in a more targeted manner. I think that’d be really helpful for me. So I’ll do that. I’m actually going to be studying a sort of part time as well. I’ve been accepted on to the Anant Climate Fellowship. So cohort of a few dozen, advanced change makers, internationally, looking at climate change solutions, learning about the issues. So that’d be good fun. That’s only a few hours a day, leaving me the bulk of it to firstly advance Human Nature Projects. I’d definitely like to continue to work on that, expand on that. So that’s a big goal. Secondly, to try and go further in this wildlife filmmaking space, which is where I’d like to dig out a career for myself. So, as the aspiring Attenborough or whatever you’d like to name it. But that’s something I’d definitely like to do more of. And I’ve gained some seed funding for a documentary series on animal rescuing, which should be fun. Out here I have now lots of lots going on. There’s … sanctuary just down the road. So there’s some wonderful stories to share from that. Obviously the koalas with the bushfires, very topical, and just you see us in approaching, so that should be fun. But yeah, working on things like that, if I can, I’d love to travel, make it to Africa again. Go to some of these beautiful, pristine places, gain more experience doing the filmmaking, doing conservation, fieldwork, whatever I can land. Very much someone who lives in the moment whilst planning long term. So I take opportunities as they come. I mean, I got the placement in South Africa, I think two weeks before I flew out. Especially in this TV filmmaking industry, it’s all very last minute with COVID, everything’s slightly mad. But yeah, it should be really interesting to see what the next year holds and then after that. Who knows going into producer type role, ideally in filmmaking, wildlife documentary production. And I’d love to try and tie that in more closely with, as you said, conservation work. So I see some of the deep, deep connections between those two. And I guess, find the solutions to the question you’re answering earlier in terms of whether you do take the hard and fast approach and your documentaries or try and connect with nature in a more slow paced manner. But looking at all those fascinating questions, new formats, like VR, AR, everything you can do live streaming. So it’s a big, interesting evolving field. But that’s where my future part is headed.
Nick
Sounds interesting and it is. You know, people talk about, you know, it’s the golden age for TV, actually, in film right now, you know, with huge audiences on Amazon, on Netflix, the budgets that are now available, the instant access to audiences through YouTube and other kind of platform. So it’s a good side to be. Yeah, doubling down and seeing what sort of, you know, impact you can create there. So yeah, good luck. Yeah we wish you all the best through that. I’d like to kind of wrap up the podcast. And I normally do just with quite open questions, really, to kind of hear about, you know, how you think and what’s important to you. So one thing I quite enjoy asking people, and I’d be interested to hear your response to it also. If I could make you like a global czar for the day, a conservation czar okay? So you control the planet for a day and you can enact one change, one law, one new rule, which everybody has to follow, that would make a big difference and an impact on the planet and the environment and the wildlife, biodiversity that is found within it. I can see breathing in already. Absolutely. What one change would you like to kind of sprinkle across this little blue and green all that’s floating in space right now?
Elliot Connor
It’s a really good question and one, which I could happily take decades to think about an answer to. No, but I think what I would love to try and move towards would be rights of nature, type law. So, working towards more solid framework towards recognising that animals are conscious, sentient creatures. I saw a few months back New Zealand added to its Constitution, a short sentence, a line, just recognising that fact. So recognising that animals do have thoughts, emotions, which I guess may sound philosophical, may sound wishy washy. But if you take that into a more practical applied sense and New Zealand is a world leader, recognising indigenous custodianship, rights of nature, all of these things, so that’ll be really important for me. I know in Switzerland, they’ve got a similar, a clause, which states that animals and plants should be treated with dignity, and constitutionally. So, really, really interesting how that pans out. And I think, moving towards the respect, the appreciation, being formally recognised for nature, would be really important. So that’s where I’m leaning towards.
Nick
That’s a really thoughtful response. Thank you. And I think my last question, is it kind of timely and topical I guess, US elections are coming down the road quite fast. Donald Trump’s in the news every second minute, you know, for various reasons. Like him or love him, you know, he doesn’t seem to be a great supporter of biodiversity and wildlife conservation. If you had a moment with him, how would you try and convince him that that wildlife matters, that we should care, that we should do more?
Elliot Connor
Well, I was on a webinar recently with Jane Goodall, which I found really, really interesting because what she speaks about in terms of how she approaches conversations, changing people’s perspectives, is finding an inroad. So finding a personal link, a connection to the person she’s speaking to. Maybe that person has, say, a child and you’re linking in environmental rhetoric with protecting that child’s future. So I guess fighting what old Trump is passionate about the American economy, the American people and try to, I guess, present a strong case there. I’m not sure how effective that would be, knowing his response to science, things like that. But, yeah, it would be quite the challenge to try and change his perspective in a short conversation, but a worthy one at that.
Nick
Yeah, but that could give you a chance of at least getting his attention. Yeah, I like the approach, yeah. Elliot it’s been really, really fun kind of getting to know you a little bit during these last couple of podcasts. Yeah, I wish you all the best. Good luck with your birthday coming down the road and adulthood. Then we can sort of remove the label of young conservationists, you’re now an adult conservationist move on. How can people find out more about you, your work? How can people get involved in Human Nature Projects and other things that you’re involved with? Where should we send them?
Elliot Connor
Sure, my website is elliotconnor.com. Really simple. You can find out more about Human Nature Projects or sign up at humannatureprojects.org. Again, very simple and make sure to head over to my podcast Human Nature, which is run through the charity, but speaking with really interesting people.
Nick
Fabulous, great. Well, thank you again, wonderful to get to know you a little bit. Take care and happy birthday in the not too distant.
Nick
Okay, well I hope you enjoyed that everyone. If you did then please do hit that subscribe button to get notified when new episodes are live and also give the ratings it really helps us to get in front of more people. If you enjoy the interviews, we’ve collected the best advice from over 400 professional conservationists into a free eBook, which you can download from the bottom of our website. And finally, if you’ve got any questions or suggestions for the podcast, please tweet them to @ConservCareers. We’d love to hear from you. Okay, till next time, guys, this is Nick signing out.
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