Podcast: Justin Lennon | Conversation Guide

In this episode of the podcast we’re speaking to Justin Lennon – CEO of Conservation Guide and marine biologist at the National Marine Aquarium.

In this podcast you’ll hear us talking about what to look for when searching for your next volunteering project, and we also discuss what it’s like to work in marine conservation and how to take the seed of an idea and turn it into a successful conservation business.

As always, if you want to find out more about Conservation Careers then go to www.conservation-careers.com for the best advice, support, training, jobs and lots more. All designed to get your clear about your career options, get ready and get hired more quickly.



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Audio Transcript

NICK: Hey Justin, how’re you doing?

JUSTIN: I’m very well thanks, Nick. Thanks for having me on today.

NICK: You’re very welcome. We should probably say, just a heads up at the top, this is the second time we’ve had this chat cause the first I think the audio failed. So that’s ok, I feel like we’re going to get into the flow this time much more quickly so it’s really nice, and thanks for finding the time to jump back in, it’s great to chat again.

JUSTIN: No, always a pleasure Nick and like I said, thanks for having me on and yeah, hopefully it’ll go smoothly this time!

NICK: (laughter) Yeah, I’m sure it will. Maybe we can start with Conservation Guide. For people who haven’t seen the site, haven’t visited yet, don’t really know what it is, how would you describe the website that you and Will, your co-founder, have started?

JUSTIN: The best way to describe Conservation Guide is kind of, I call it my elevated pitch. It’s a little bit like, Airbnb for conservation volunteering, so if you’d like to look after or protect sharks on the Great Barrier Reef or you’d like to help with big cat conservation in the Serengeti, in theory Conservation Guide is the website that you go to, to compare the market. So, kind of been approaching lots of different conservation organisations over the last year and a half or so and we’ve been bringing quality conservation projects to our site. At the moment it’s just kind of predominantly conservation volunteering, but we’re kind of looking in the next few months or so to have things like conservation courses, conservation events on our site as well. So really we’re just a platform for quality conservation experiences and that’s what we’re trying to build at the moment. Things seem to be going quite well.

NICK: Cool. You talked about quality there, how are you ensuring that the experiences that are on your site that people find are of a quality? Cause that’s something people are spending their hard-earned cash and I know obviously it’s volunteering project but some of these things are quite expensive, too. You know, how can you ensure that they’re gonna deliver the goods for these guys?

JUSTIN: Yeah, so at the end of the day we want to have a really robust system of kind of vetting these experiences. At the moment, we go through each individual organisation’s website and we kind of have a little look at the different things that they’ve been doing, and we also invite them to a Skype conversation as well, so we have a Skype meeting with them, usually lasts between half an hour to an hour just talking about different things, are they affiliated with research institute, do they have any affiliation with the government, any different conservation organisations that they might be working in collaboration with? These kind of questions, have they been publishing any scientific research, things like that give us a better understanding about what kind of conservation that they’re up to as well. And then also we have a look at the reviews on their site as well, so we look on their site, other different reviewing platforms as well, whether it’s kind of gap year style platforms to give us kind of a much better idea of how the organisation’s run and what the staff and past volunteers’ thoughts have been on the project. We’d like to make it a little more robust, kind of down the line it would be great if we could send members of staff out there to do a proper audit on conservation projects, but at the moment this seems to be, with the facilities that we have at hand, this is kind of all we can do for now, but it seems to be going quite well.

NICK: I guess it would be quite a nice lifestyle to kind of travel around between different volunteer projects just checking them out, making sure everything’s ok?

JUSTIN: Oh no, ideally I mean, I wouldn’t actually send members of staff out, I’d be going out myself (laughter). It would be great to just go to different projects all around the world and kind of do a little bit of an environmental audit on them, would be great. We’ve started working in collaboration with this organisation called Kinder Donations, which are a charity in the UK. And we’re also gonna use them to vet some of these conservation organisations based on their charitable status. So they don’t look at the conservation side of things, that’s what Conservation Guide will focus on but with a little help from Kinder Donations, that will kind of help with our vetting process.

NICK: It’s interesting, Conservation Guide, it feels like such an obvious site that we didn’t have previously but now we do. I don’t know if there’s been an explosion of opportunities around the globe but there’s certainly a lot of different volunteering and internship type projects globally that people can go on as part of a gap year or as part of a kind of holiday placement type opportunity, and bringing them into one place has real value in terms of just efficiency and allowing people to compare between one and another. Where did the idea come from, from your side?

JUSTIN: It’s funny actually, I was working part-time at Snow & Rock, a mountain sports shop and on my lunch breaks I was just kind of doing little bits and pieces down on my notebook and a friend of mine, a colleague at the time had just started up his own website, it was for quirky little ski holidays, and it just kind of gave me an idea, I’d love to set up my own business or my own little enterprise doing something and I’ve been fortunate enough to go on quite a few conservation projects over the years since 2006, some really good projects and also some controversial projects where it was quite obvious to me that the organisations were putting profit margins over their commitment to conservation, so it kind of got me thinking about you know, it would be great to have one central space where you can be sure that you have quality conservation organisations on. So yeah then it kind of got me thinking and I just started… I kind of had a go at making a website myself, which wasn’t really that good and then fortunately I got my co-founder Will on board who’s a web developer and then we started kind of together building Conservation Guide. He was putting together the web platform and I was finding these organisations and trying to bring them to the platform. So that’s kind of where the idea came from. But we’re still very young so we’re looking to add more organisations to the website over the coming months and years.

NICK: Yeah and it’s so interesting, cause you’ve done a lot of this part-time right? Outside of your current day job, which we’ll talk about in a bit, but how have you found that journey, trying to kind of get a start-up off the ground as kind of a side gig, a side hustle? Has that been an easy challenge?

JUSTIN: No, it’s tough. The key thing is, and someone who’d got a start-up off the ground, a good friend of mine, he just said, you’ve just got to keep plugging away at it and I know that seems like quite an easy thing to do, but even if it’s just doing a social media post or sending an email to a contact that you’ve made through Conservation Guide, just things like that keeps it ticking over, and if you go a couple of days or you go a week without doing anything on your enterprise then that’s when things can start to regress or start to plateau so I read an article somewhere and it said it takes the average start-up 10 years to kind of get off the ground or become successful so I know I’m only three and a bit years into Conservation Guide so, you know, we’ve still got quite a lot of time on our hands and even if it does get to that 10 year period and it’s still not there then I’ll carry on with it. So I think for me it’s just kind of keep [ ? 06:32 ] and obviously working full-time for the National Marine Aquarium so it doesn’t leave much time to work on Conservation Guide, but as long as I just come back and I’ve… even if it’s just 10-15 minutes to work on Conservation Guide, it does keep it fresh in my head, keeps things ticking over and I can, I’m confident that soon it will be successful.

NICK: Did you procrastinate on the idea for long when you had that idea? I think a lot of people have ideas for things they’d love to do but not many people, like you actually make these ideas happen. How long was it from like, this is what I want to do to actually something had occurred? Are you a kind of go-getter or did you kind of…?

JUSTIN: Yeah, for the first three, four, five months I was, I went gung-ho on Conservation Guide. I think I’d even written my own mock business plan and I designed the old website so I’m not particularly tech savvy when it comes to web development, I like designed a website in my notebook, what I wanted it to look like so yeah, I was kind of going at it quite hard. And I’d already registered it as a company in the first few months as well. It was maybe not necessarily the best idea to do straight away as I kind of came to find out later down the line but yeah, I kind of, I really went at it and that kind of, that was really great to kind of get the ball moving.

NICK: That’s cool. Have you had much support along the way to help the development?

JUSTIN: Well the great thing was getting our co-founder on board. When you’re doing it by yourself, you kind of, it’s easy to switch off. I know I said persistence is probably the key to these things but some days, you know, you can’t do something on your website for whatever reason. But when you have a founder or a business partner involved, it’s someone that you’re accountable to. Me and Will, we set up two calls a week on a Wednesday and a Friday and if I’ve said I’m gonna do X and I haven’t done it, then he’s gonna be like, why haven’t you done it Justin? So it was really good to get someone like Will on board and he shares the same passion for the conservation, although he doesn’t kind of come from a science background, he’s done some projects as well. He’s a scuba diver, we both share the passion, and then he’s also a very good friend of mine as well so it’s great to have someone like that on board. And we’ve also had some investment help as well from the organisation WeWork, we won in the Incubator category in their Creator Awards in November last year, and we got $18,000 to help with our web development and we also got some free office space as well, so that’s kind of really helped the website and the organisation snowball quite a bit and off the back of that we’ve had some really good publicity and we’ve had more organisations find us now, whereas at the start I was approaching organisations saying, oh do you want to come on to Conservation Guide? Now it’s kind of more, I’m finding that organisations are approaching us and saying, oh can we have a listing on your site? Which is really nice as well. I always knew Conservation Guide was gonna be a bit of a slow burner but it’s nice now after a couple of years finally to see kind of a little bit of progression and so yeah, things are going really well.

NICK: That’s really great to hear, yeah. And we also Conservation Careers have benefitted in the early days from the kind of seed investment and mentoring. There’s a lot of kind of start-up accelerator programmes out there and so yeah, from my side I think there’s people with an idea, there’s a burning idea they want to see happen, and they’re jotting down in their notepads too, then there are people out there who they’re looking to support, right?

JUSTIN: Yeah well this is it, and the Creator Awards is a perfect example. I mean it was an incubator investment and we didn’t even need to put together a robust business plan or anything like that. All it was a 90-second video with a small application, and then after that we came through to the next stage and we had a couple of interviews, and a couple of weeks later we won $18,000 and it was just really nice to see that they’re kind of investing in you and not really your business idea at that point. It’s kind of, if you can clearly demonstrate your passion and your conviction for what you want to do, then they’re kind of willing to, you know, take a punt on you which is really nice. And if it wasn’t really for them we wouldn’t be in the position we are now with a really cool online platform that we’ve got so we owe ? quite a lot for that. It just shows that, you know, if you’re not business minded in any way, shape or form, if you come from… I mean I come from a science background so, you know, I’m not particularly business savvy and I’m still not particularly business savvy but opportunities like that exist and I’m sure there’s plenty others out there, not just through the Creator Awards so, you know, just kind of keep an eye out for it and if you’ve got a really good idea, just keep plugging away and I’m sure it will come to fruition at some point.

NICK: Yeah, and there’s no better way to learn than by doing so… which is what you’re doing, absolutely. So you touched on your background there like as a marine biologist, you’re still working Conservation Guide as kind of like, well you’re wearing two hats essentially now, aren’t you, founder and leading Conservation Guide, at the same time you’re working as a marine biologist for the National Marine Aquarium, is that right?

JUSTIN: Yeah so, I’ve been working for the National Marine Aquarium now for four, nearly five years, so National Marine Aquarium is an ocean research charity based down in Plymouth. So it’s like SEA LIFE in that they have a big public aquarium where you can go and you can see all the really nice tanks but different to SEA LIFE who’re kind of a bit more of a business, National Marine Aquarium is a charity so they’re kind of helping promote ocean conservation through engagement with the public in different education courses that they run. But one of their projects is they have this large public aquarium in the City of London and me and a small team of biologists look after the largest in Liverpool Street, in Heron Tower so they have a massive 90,000 litre aquarium with about 400 different species of tropical coral reef fish, based on Heron Island in the Great Barrier Reef, so we look after that to zoo licence standards, we have quarantine systems, pathology lab where we do post-mortems and we fix different specimens if they get ill, send them off to ZSL where we histology reports so it’s quite a unique set-up in the middle of the City of London.

NICK: So let’s get this right, you’re a marine biologist who actually dives in the middle of London with sharks?

JUSTIN: Yep, in Bishopsgate, Liverpool Street, I dive twice a week with small, tiny little sharks, not your kind of big requiem sharks that most people think of but small, little epaulette shark and like Port Jackson shark and a host of other coral reef fish as well. Yeah it’s a pretty unique job and the novelty still hasn’t worn off that I get to take my wetsuit into work while most people are wearing their suits.

NICK: When you were job hunting for your current role, what sort of jobs were you looking at or looking for, what was your goal at the time?

JUSTIN: Before I went to university, I knew I had an interest in the marine side of things. I didn’t really know if I wanted to be a marine biologist, but I knew I had an interest in the environmental sciences and the marine environmental sciences in particular. I was looking for jobs on environmentjobs.co.uk, it was one thing that I used to find jobs so that was quite a useful resource, but I knew, whereas a lot of my friends went off and did kind of like a round-the-world gap year travels, which is great fun, you can do some amazing experiences, that I really wanted to kind of get a qualification while I was out there as well, so I decided last-minute to change and do my first marine conservation project I did in Fiji, and there I got most of my recreational dive qualifications out of the way, I got like a little BTEC qualification in tropical habitat conservation as well, so that’s really where the passion started for me there. And then I carried on and did environmental science at University of Nottingham and did a Masters in it as well. Yeah and then I found the assistant biologist role with the National Marine Aquarium, so I got that first of all, and then about three years ago, I then got promoted to the biologist role, which is a full-time position, so I work 8-4 with the National Marine Aquarium and then I wear my Conservation Guide hat in the evenings.

NICK: Interesting, yeah. On Conservation Careers marine conservation is probably the most popular job area, the one that’s most searched for on the site, and therefore it makes it quite a competitive field to be working in, too. You got your experience in the field out in Fiji by the sound of things and you kind of explored and deepened your passion there and then you jumped into the job hunt off the back of that. How did you find the job hunt? Did you feel that there were lots of jobs and it was competitive, or do you feel quite lucky?

JUSTIN: Um, because I was looking in marine conservation and obviously being based in London, there’s not a plentiful amount of marine conservation jobs in London. Saying that, you know, if you go down more to the coast, I know places like Newcastle and down on the south coast, there’s a lot more opportunities for marine conservationists, and also you know, if you want to go abroad and do a kind of volunteer project as well. I appreciate you know, some of these can be quite expensive but I did have to work two or three jobs at the same time to fund that experience to then go out there and get these qualification so it’s not easy but there are definitely opportunities out there for sure. And resources like Conservation Careers are a great way to find these kind of things, but it was tough, I was working for Snow & Rock as a sales assistant and then I worked in another mountain sports shop,  Ellis Brigham whilst I was working as an assistant biologist for the National Marine Aquarium so I was working, like 7-11 for quite a while, about a year and a half I was doing that, go to the Aquarium in the morning then I’d go to Snow & Rock in the evening, so it wasn’t easy but fortunately, I managed to get the full-time position in the end which helped. Really interesting thing for me and really helpful was taking some online courses as well, that really helped so I was using websites like Coursera and Udemy where you can take free online courses, I was doing things like animal behaviour, climate change science, all these kind of things which you can kind of take in your own time. There are deadlines to it but it’s not that stringent so I was doing it on the side of things, and that was really, really helpful and I think it’s nice to have on your CV as well, it shows that you’re kind of thinking outside the box a little bit. These days a lot of people have a degree, a lot of people have a Masters as well now but if you’ve done some other things as well that show that you’re kind of thinking outside the box and want to gain some extra experience, I think that’s really helpful.

NICK: That’s really great advice, actually. And it’s something that more people are doing and I think employers are starting to recognise too, as you say it kind of shows that you’re not just talking the talk, you’re kind of walking the walk and developing your passion, you’re going the extra mile.

JUSTIN: Yeah, it’s not even just for science things, I told you I’m not particularly great at web development so I’ve been like WordPress courses and like really, really kind of basic coding courses as well, and again, they’re all for free and you get your little certification and qualification at the end of it as well. And a lot of these are done with kind of reputable research institutes, some of the stuff I did was University of Western Australia, John Hopkins University in Baltimore, all of these courses are free online for anyone to take, they kind of start at certain periods in the year and so you know, if you’re interested in one it might not be the case that you can take it right then but in maybe two or three months’ time you’d be able to kind of enrol on it then. So there’s some really great opportunities out there and I really recommend doing them, cause it just kind of gives you that little bit of a step forward against the rest of the demographic when it comes to finding a job and getting your name out there.

NICK: And it’s nice to kind of be able to build your experience from wherever you are. Obviously if you’ve got an internet connection then you can do these courses, you don’t need to physically go to these places. Just jumping back to Conservation Guide then and then actual physical experiences that you can go on around the globe, we’ve heard many times and we probably both feel it too that volunteering is an important step in getting a conservation job, it helps you to explore your passion, to get really good skills, to network, for all sorts of reasons you know, it’s a good way to kind of get out in the field, outside of a kind of classroom and actually, you know, become a conservationist if you like. What sort of things should people look out for when they’re trying to secure a volunteering project or an internship around the globe? Your site’s great for it, you know, there’s loads of different opportunities out there, there’s way more than there’s on your site as well. You know, what are the kind of things that people should bear in mind when choosing their next volunteering project?

JUSTIN: For me I always… it was always the marine conservation side of things which were kind of the most interesting to me. Marine conservation can be an extremely expensive volunteering project to do so obviously you’ve got to really kind of take these things into consideration, and the first thing is your budget and there are some really great free opportunities as well. There’s some free opportunities on Conservation Guide and the UK’s really good for free volunteering experiences, actually, some really good stuff out there so…

NICK: Like what? Can we just dive into that then, if you don’t have any budget, what sort of things should people be considering?

JUSTIN: There’s lots of really great habitat regeneration projects as well. We have actually one in South America, it’s a really great one, these kind of like eco-conservation camps. You know, if you can fund your flights out there then they pay for your food and accommodation while you’re there and you just kind of lend a helping hand and they’ll kind of help to educate on the local wildlife and the local habitat, helping reforest a little area that’s been deforested or helping to plant different species of vegetables in your local area. There’s some really, really great projects there and a lot of them are for free as well, so it doesn’t have to be a £2,500 marine conservation project you know to do that, so there’s some really great opportunities out there. I’d also take a look at the reviews. Reviews is a really good thing, so reviews from the members of staff and then also reviews from the volunteers as well, you know, you’re gonna get a really great idea of what’s gonna happen on a day-to-day level as well, what you can [  ? 17:30 ], so that’s a really good thing to look at, and a lot of the things it comes to when we vet them as well, so have a little look and see if they’re actually publishing any scientific research, if you’re interested in that kind of thing. Also take into consideration as well what time of the year you’re gonna be going there, so if it’s a marine conservation project and they say on their website that it’s gonna be diving with whale sharks, look into that a little bit more because whale sharks are only gonna be coming past, you know, at certain times of the year so you can kind of fall into these little traps there, so kind of take that into consideration as well.

NICK: I guess there’s so many opportunities out there it’s worth just doing your homework and making sure if you are spending money, make sure you’re spending it wisely yeah, and ask questions to the people, ask questions of other people who’ve been on those projects and make sure that your time and your money have been invested really well.

JUSTIN: Yeah, I mean on Conservation Guide we don’t have it up and running quite yet but we’re going to integrate like a live chat on our site as well so if you find an experience that you like, if there’s someone at the other end of the line you’ll be able to go live chat to a member of staff there and you can ask them questions straight up of what they’re up to that day, what they’re up to that week, how many members of staff are onsite, what’s the accommodation like, what have they been doing, what have they been seeing? That’s something that we’re gonna integrate soon and something that’s quite key I think.

NICK: Yeah, that’s gonna be really nice.

JUSTIN: An exchange between the volunteer and the experience.

NICK: Yeah, and getting that instant feedback on the questions that are really important to you. You were kind enough to ask me to come on your website recently and do a blog article Under the Spotlight questions, I don’t know if people have seen that yet but it’s really interesting sort of half a dozen quite open questions that were quite fun for me to answer, and I thought it would be nice to kind of round up this interview with me asking you those questions back in return, if I might. So the first one is, what inspired you to get involved in conservation environment, like where did this passion come from?

JUSTIN: I think it came from my family holidays down to the south coast, my mum and my dad used to take me down to Cornwall and Devon in my early years and I used to love going rock pooling, used to take my net and my bucket and me and my younger brother would go down trying to, who could find the biggest crab or who could find a little conger eel or something like that, so I think that’s really where the passion sparked cause obviously I grew up in south London so in terms of like conservation and the environment, apart from going down to the park, there wasn’t too much there. So those little family holidays really kind of resonated quite strongly with me and I suppose that’s where the passion started, and then I really enjoyed geography and biology at school and especially, I had a really passionate geography teacher and I loved doing geography projects and I loved going out in the field, going on geography courses. We did Slapton Ley in Devon, I remember we did an ecology trip there and that’s where it kind of really kicked off. So yeah, I suppose it was my trips to Cornwall, I think.

NICK: Happy family holidays, sounds cool.


NICK: If you could change one thing to make a huge impact on the planet, what would it be? If I made you like conservation tsar for a day, this is a new decree, this thing will change, what sort of thing would you like to see switch overnight?

JUSTIN: I’d love if conservation could be put into the school curriculum. When I was at school, you know, you learnt about the environment to a certain extent but never do I remember the term kind of conservation really being uttered until maybe I was in A-Level or something like that, I think, from what I remember rightly anyway. And so to really have that idea of how close humans are integrated with the environment and whether it’s the negative or positive effects our actions can have on the environment, so if you have a better understanding of that, then I think you’re gonna be more inclined to help protect your environment and to get involved in conservation, because when it comes to a point later on in life in your 20s and your 30s and you’re already kind of like entrenched in your routines, I think it’s a lot harder to change people’s views on things. So if you’ve got a much better understanding of ecosystem services and the way we interact with our environment, then I think everyone’s gonna be better placed to affect it.

NICK: Yeah, absolutely, and building the next conservationists of the future. Why not? [ ? 20:58 ] yeah I’m totally with that (laughter). What has been your most memorable encounter with nature or wildlife so far, when you kind of flash back on all the big moments of life, at some level, you know, being with or in nature as it might be when you’re diving? Are there any memories you think back on and think wow. I was there.

JUSTIN: Yeah, so there’s one that… yeah. It’s quite clearly my biggest and my favourite. When I was in Fiji on a marine conservation project as a 19-year-old, I think it was about my 15th dive I’d ever done and now I’m well over 300 so this shows you how good a dive it was.

NICK: You were lucky.

JUSTIN: Yeah, I was very lucky. So this dive called the Nigali Passage off an island called Gau Island in Fiji, it was a dive on their Barrier Reef, the Barrier Reef was set off about 1km off the mainland, off the island we were staying and because of this hole in the reef you get lots of nutrient flow coming from the island and so because of that you get lots of fish building up in this hole and then you get your pelagics and rays that all kind of come into the area, so it’s a drift dive and you get dropped island-side of this hole in the reef and you get shot through this hole. And it’s almost as if someone has gone down there with a chisel and hammer and kind of created this little man-made ledge, and we sat there for about 15 minutes and we had about 50-60 galactic and grey reef sharks swimming around us, snappers the size of my dinner table, spotted eagle rays coming past and for someone who’d kind of only really done his PADI Open Water up to this point, this was a pretty amazing experience and yeah, it hasn’t been beaten since. I’ve been fortunate enough to dive in Tanzania, Madagascar, Jamaica and that dive in Fiji was number one. I suppose really that’s where the spark for marine conservation started for me.

NICK: That’s amazing, yeah. And my final question is quite an easy one for you. Who’s your conservation role model? Who do you think has really helped to inspire you most within the conservation movement?

JUSTIN: Well I suppose at first it was my dad, who’s quite a good one for that for taking me down to the south west and going rock pooling and that’s where again, that’s where it sparked. Also there’s two for me, there was Carl Sagan, I remember my parents bought me The Cosmos, the DVD. I know Carl Sagan is kind of known more for astronomy and physics but the way he talks about the environment and conservation, and he was the one that was saying that environmental scientists and conservation scientists are gonna play a massive role in the next like 50 years or so, so a lot of what he said and the way he kind of articulated himself, he talks poetically about the environment and about the stars and the cosmos and so that’s where a kind of real interest for science came. And then of course like probably most conservationists as well, David Attenborough. There’s nothing gets me more excited on a Sunday evening 7pm when Blue Planet comes on, or Blue Planet II, Frozen Planet, Africa, Life, all of them have just been great and sit down there with a cup of tea watching David Attenborough. It’s just great, yeah, so they’re my role models for sure.

NICK: Yeah, he’s inspired so many people hasn’t he, globally?

JUSTIN: Yeah, no, it’s great times.

NICK: Well Justin, it’s been great as always to chat and thanks so much for finding the time to kind of talk through, give us your career story, the inside scoop on the conservation volunteering industry. If people want to find out a bit more about you and Conservation Guide, where should we point them?

JUSTIN: So we have our online platform, Conservation Guide at www.ConservationGuide.org and we’re also quite prolific on social media, you can follow us on Twitter @ConserveGuide, on Facebook @ Conservation Guide or on Instagram @ConservationGuide as well.

NICK: Brilliant, and we’ll put all those links in the show notes as well and on the blog post from this so thanks again for chatting, it’s always good to catch up and good luck with Conservation Guide, we look forward to seeing where it goes in the future.

JUSTIN: Awesome Nick, yeah thanks for having me on the show again, and maybe, you know, speak to you again soon. (laughter) Hopefully not a third time though!

NICK: Hopefully not, take care, mate.

JUSTIN: Cheers Nick, see you later.

NICK: Ok, I hope you enjoyed that, everyone. If you want to find out more about Conservation Careers then go to www.conservation-careers.com for the best advice, support, training, jobs and lots more. All designed to get your clear about your career options, get ready and get hired more quickly. If you enjoy the interviews, we’ve spoken to over 400 professional conservationists, from across the globe, you can find their interviews on our website here. We’ve also collated their best advice into a FREE eBook which you can download from here. For suggestions and questions for the show, please tweet us at twitter.com/conservcareers.

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